Just when you think the mainline Presbyterians can't get any more embarrassing, they go and play kissy-face with Hezbollah.
"On October 20, 2005, the Lebanese press reported that a delegation from the Presbyterian Church USA, headed by Father Nihad Tu'meh and with Robert Worley as its spokesman,[1] visited southern Lebanon at the invitation of Hizbullah, and met there with the terrorist organization's commander in southern Lebanon, Nabil Qawuq.
During the meeting, Qawuq expressed his doubts about U.S. actions in the region and the intentions of the Bush administration. Worley, on his part, assured Qawuq that he was not defending the U.S. administration, that all delegation members had voted Democratic, and that the Presbyterian Church had been pressured by U.S. Jewish organizations because of its campaign to divest from corporations working with Israel."
Any PC(USA) folks who are sick of this, just remember the PCA is always waiting with open arms. :-)
They were followed by a delegation from the '9/11 Families.'
"Delegation spokesman Robert Worley said: "We do not wish to defend the U.S. administration. We all elected the Democratic Party against the Republican Party. Rest assured that we will return to the U.S. in order to continue our activity for peace, and we want to hear about the charity activities and the cultural and social activities organized by Hizbullah in south [Lebanon]."
Remember this the next time they pose as non-partisan. And remember, kids, don't question their patriotism!
Posted by Discoshaman at novembre 25, 2005 12:18 AM | TrackBack
"Any PC(USA) folks who are sick of this, just remember the PCA is always waiting with open arms. :-)"
Yeah, but I don't see those open arms holding the anesthetic for the lobotomy we'll need as the price of admission. ;)
I for one refuse to believe that the vast majority of the people in our PCUSA pews are even aware of these kinds of things going on, much less support them, and as long as these people remain in the PCUSA, they need pastors just like PCA people need pastors. I'll make sure to turn the lights off if I'm the last to leave.
Posted by: Rev. Mike at novembre 25, 2005 03:03 PMWow, that was an incredibly insulting comment, Rev. Mike.
Posted by: pentamom at novembre 25, 2005 04:37 PMRev. Mike-
"Yeah, but I don't see those open arms holding the anesthetic for the lobotomy we'll need as the price of admission. ;)"
*blink blink*
Could you clarify this comment, because I want to be sure to read it in the way it was intended.
Just out of curiousity, with PC(USA) p-ing contests in the news at least every 3 months, how could the people in the pews have no idea about the status of their denom?
Posted by: Discoshaman at novembre 25, 2005 05:24 PMI'm sorry. I meant that as an interdenominational tease, but it clearly fell flat. Please delete the comment if it gives you offense. Given that my denomination was on the receiving end of a broad brush painting as part of the commie horde and being Presbyterian in Name Only, being the denomination from which yours sprung, by the way, I thought that response was fairly tame.
As for how do the people in the pews not know, it is because the vast majority of them are congregationalists at heart, caring little for anything much outside the walls of their own sanctuaries. That's a sad indictment, n'est-ce pas? We probably WOULD be better off with you than with the rotting carcass that remains. I suppose if I'm honest, there's a bit of resentment that because you folks left, we evangelicals who remain in the PCUSA are now left to fight off this nonsense in a weakened state. Instead of inviting us to flee with you, why not suggest that your people come back and help us dig ourselves out of this morass?
Posted by: Rev. Mike at novembre 25, 2005 09:11 PMHi Rev-
I just needed to know what level of venom to attach to the words so I could calibrate my response. ;) You're correct that my words were provocative. I certainly don't mind a bit of reciprocal provocation. I just wasn't sure how you meant lobotomy. . . Once thing I've always been impressed with since joining the PCA was the level of intellect and emotional maturity displayed by the people there. It's been a tremendous blessing to me.
But I'm really and truly not offended. And I'm happy to discuss the points you raised. . .
"We probably WOULD be better off with you than with the rotting carcass that remains."
My wife and I both have family members who are clergy in the PCUSA. They're active in renewal movements and such. While I thin the overall course of the PCUSA is toward decline and increasing heinousness, there are still shoots of life in the old girl. It was to those people I was addressing my post.
There are plenty of solid believers. The problem is that the decision-making apparati are all in the hands of the apostates.
"I suppose if I'm honest, there's a bit of resentment that because you folks left, we evangelicals who remain in the PCUSA are now left to fight off this nonsense in a weakened state. Instead of inviting us to flee with you, why not suggest that your people come back and help us dig ourselves out of this morass? "
I think we'd be turned into pillars of salt. ;)
Seriously, I see no possible way this would be a wise choice. We would be so overwhelmingly outnumbered. More importantly, the denominational powers would begin to wear us down, forcing female clergy and all the rest upon us.
Even the healthy PCUSA churches I've known have been Presbyterian In Name Only. In reality, they were generically Evangelical. Why would we want to take vibrant, consciously Reformed churches and put them through such an acid wash?
Our denomination continues to grow well stateside and our affiliate churches are exploding worldwide. Meanwhile, the mainline church struggles to arrest a membership freefall. It doesn't seem an attractive proposition.
I believe we made the right decision when we came out of Sodom. It's clear you have a different perspective. I'd be interested to hear more from you about it as you have time. :)
Posted by: Discoshaman at novembre 25, 2005 10:38 PM"...the level of intellect and emotional maturity displayed by the people..." Amen!
It's encouraging too to see this not only among the older folk, but as well - maybe especially - in the younger ones, both clergy and laity.
Posted by: FLGrandma at novembre 26, 2005 08:16 AM"Instead of inviting us to flee with you, why not suggest that your people come back and help us dig ourselves out of this morass?"
I'd turn this around. Imagine if all the Evangelicals in the PCUSA joined us instead of us putting our heads back into the lion's mouth. Such a merger would greatly increase Presbyterianism's ability to reach people for Christ with the Gospel. And they would be brought into a denomination which would disciple them according to the Word of God.
This convo is a bit judgemental on both sides. I'm happy whenever someone chooses to join us. But truly, I don't judge someone who believes himself called to minister within the old church. Some of the puritans remained in the Anglican Church, some dissented. God has different callings for each of us. But if I were ever to enter the PCUSA, it would be as a mission field. . . Which doesn't sound entirely dissimilar to your approach. So maybe we agree more than we initially seemed to. :)
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