Le Sabot Post-Moderne

This is pretty much run-of-the-mill for the Orthodox Church in Rus'. It was accepted out of political expediency and let Petr I corrupt it so it could maintain its place in society. It even stood by during some of the most egregious actions of the revolutionary and early Soviet regime, until it found itself a target. There are some wonderful, faithful people on the ground in the churches of Russia (and I'm sure in Ukraine), but the spinelessness and hunger for power of the leadership has been and continues to be disheartening.

Chris-

That's pretty much a perfect summation of my view, though you do it without using the phrase, "Concubines of Autocracy" somehow. ;)

There are some wonderful believers in the Orthodox Church. I've been surprised how few I've met here, though. I honestly think I knew more active, committed Orthodox in the States than I do here. And they were all converts from Protestantism.

It's a bit like I see in Catholicism -- most of the bright, articulate and dedicated Catholic believers that I've known have been those who came to it from Evangelicalism. Whether within Evangelicalism or in reaction against it, it seems to provide some missing nutrient which modern Orthodoxy and Catholicism are deficient in.

Most of the active believers I meet in life here in Kiev (outside the context of the church), are Evangelicals. The Orthodox Church seems to share a position equivalent to the mainline denoms in the States -- most of the active participants are old, and the young people are either leaving the faith or going to Evangelical churches. Those that remain tend to be nominal, holding to a cultural brand-name loyalty.

I should blog on this eventually. :-)

That's pretty much a perfect summation of my view, though you do it without using the phrase, "Concubines of Autocracy" somehow. ;)

Actually, the phrase running through my head was "Мне на епископов наплевать", which you have to admit is a bit ruder than yours. :-D

It's the reality of the Orthodox hierarchy, not of the Orthodox faith. The mystical Orthodoxy you mention is probably the true essence of it, while bishops, well, come and go. Monasticism and patristic tradition are fundamental to Orthodoxy; its hierarchs' politics is not. In this sense, Orthodoxy is as decentralized and grassroot as possible; believers turn to monks and priests, and writings of the Fathers, for guidance, not to church hierarchs. Unless the highest hierarchs commit apostasy -- and even collaborating with tyrants does not constitute apostasy -- the church will stand.

I'm not sure you can have an "essence" of something that is fundamentally different from how it works out in actual institutional life.

I say that as a Protestant, deeply aware of the problems in the evangelical church. However, I'm also willing to say that the worst of the problems flow from the "essence" of what is really believed and practiced by many. You can't abstract the essence from the accidents, to to speak. :-)

Well, there have been worse examples of "Christian" church leaders bowing to evil political movements- like the German churches supporting Hitler WHILE his regime was killing people left and right. Not that that excuses this. In general, I think the Church is a lot better off supporting ideas or principles as opposed to politicians and parties.

Lenise, I agree -- but I also think it would have been lame for the Germans at that time to try to tell me that the "essence" of German Lutheranism had absolutely nothing to do with the *fact* of almost universal capitulation to Naziism.

That's my only point. I don't mean that Ukrainian Orthodoxy is uniquely bad.

Funny, I got into an argument about this just the other day with a couple young Scandinavian diplomats who were all worked up about the Roman church's heavy hand in politics here. I replied by pointing out that while you may not like it, you have to remember that it springs from the same impulse that motivated their tremendous role in resisting Communism during the 1980s.

In general - though the Nazism example Lenise raises must be borne in mind - I think it's pretty safe to say Catholics' awareness of the church's duty to speak out against injustice in society is MUCH higher than that of the Orthodox, and if you have to pick one to dominate your society, I'll take John Paul II any day of the week (and, twice on Sunday - sorry, I'm a sucker for a cheap pun).

I'd even argue that the church's role in creating "civil society" (that holy grail beloved by Western NGOs in the CIS) is one of the key reasons why Poland's post-communist trajectory has been so radically different from Ukraine's, where religion is locked up in monasteries.

As I put it to my Scandinavian friends - feel free to delete this if I cross the taste line here, Disco - if forced to choose, I think most people would rather have the Catholics passing laws about what they do with their genitals than the Orthodox standing idly by while dictators attach electrodes to them.

Oh yeah, and beaucoup de plus grande dittos pour pentamom's point about essence and accident.

Another weird koinky-dink: I just re-started Bonhoeffer's _The Cost of Discipleship_ this week.

Alexei-

I don't have time to respond fully tonight, but I wanted you to know that I read what you wrote, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I also want to be very clear that I'm not blanketly condemning all Orthodox people or clergy. Those who have Christ as their Lord are my brothers and sisters and I treat them as exactly that.

Interestingly, both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches have a historical reputation for offering the downtrodden solace by pointing their attention away from the here-and-now. As far as I know, this is pretty much the truth in the case of the Medieval church. Serfdom lasted centuries longer in Eastern Europe (at least in whatever comprised Russia through the turn of the 20th century). The Church's mission (arguably, rightly so) in both cases was to keep the peace. Unfortunately, the Orthodox Church was plunged from serfdom straight into Communism, while the Roman church had a nice friendly period of Republicanism/mercantilism to adapt to more political freedom. I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Maybe Orthodoxy didn't have a chance to develop a political conscience/consciousness.