Le Sabot Post-Moderne

5. Lose the parasitism. Much of what passes for culture in the Christian ghetto is intensely derivative. I'm slack-jawed with amazement that we haven't yet had a baptized Harry Potter-esque series as an "answer" to Rowling. Our "answer" to the world seems generally to be that of a dumbed-down form of aping.

I humbly submit to you that one area where this phenomenon is NOT running rampant is the blogosphere. (One can argue whether it's legitimately a part of the arts, but work with me here.) There are many blogs by evangelical Christians that are proving that being smart, funny, perceptive and intellectually honest doesn't require one to check his or her Christian beliefs at the door. It may not be everything, or even much...but it's a start.

Just a quick clarification, I taught secondary Theatre for ten years but sold out a couple of years ago to make money. I left primarily to make it easier for my wife to stay home with our newborn.

Numbers 5 and 6: Amen!
Number 2: Hmmm. Can't we just burn his paintings? Or, rather, get him stoned, and see what those little houses with the lights on look like then.

Thanks for the exemption, by the way. ;-)

As evangelical Christians, we have tended to relegate art to the very fringe of life. The rest of human life we feel is more important. Despite our constant talk about the Lordship of Christ, we have narrowed its scope to a very small area of reality. We have misunderstood the concept of the Lordship of Christ over the whole of man and the whole of the universe and have not taken to us the riches that the Bible gives us for ourselves, for our lives, and for our culture.
(Francis A. Schaeffer, Art and the Bible, Ch. 1)

OUR St. Francis wrote a great little book (basically an essay) titled Art and the Bible. It says more succinctly what others have been saying here. Simply put, God is the ultimate in “creativity” and thus his followers should be at the forefront of the arts. The early Church took this seriously; one need only listen to Bach or Handel to realize this. Somewhere along the line we [Christians] punted on this issue.

But the outskirts of Monterey is so beautiful, a real live stoning would mar the landscape.

Maybe on the eastern part of town, but not to the north or south, or even on the shoreline. Towards Salinas on the outskirts of the old Fort Ord wouldn't be a bad location.

I am Art Skool graduate
a pharisee among pharisees.
I found Christ in Art Skool!
Or, perhaps, He found me.

Eric-

I'm not sure that blogging coincides with the arts, but I think blogs have been a great boon to Christians generally, and Reformed Christians in particular. A quick scan of the Blogs for God lists shows our ubiquity in the blogosphere, especially relative to our numbers in the general church population.

Calvinism has always had the best thinkers, but often this thought didn't filter down into the larger church population. Blogging provides the Reformed world with a ton of well-thought, well-spoken popularizers. The internet as a whole has been good for us, from home pages to monergism.com to the inevitable Calvin Mafia that springs up on every Christian forum.

Inkling-

"I left primarily to make it easier for my wife to stay home with our newborn."

Good on you for that. :-)

Jared-

"Number 2: Hmmm. Can't we just burn his paintings? Or, rather, get him stoned, and see what those little houses with the lights on look like then."

Actually, you might be on to something. Compare his "paintings of light" with Paul Oakenfold and Shifty's Starry-Eyed Surprise video. Perhaps both are trying to convey the astounding play of light that can be viewed through an Ecstasy lens.

Dogman-

"Despite our constant talk about the Lordship of Christ, we have narrowed its scope to a very small area of reality."

Exactly! Jesus often seems reduced to a purveyor of Fire Insurance. I love Schaeffer. I read through "Escape from Reason" the other day. He's great. I need to check out "Art and the Bible".

Gator-

Cool, sounds like you know the area. Are you local? The Duchess and I spent one of our happiest years in Monterey, while I studied Russian at DLI. We kept telling each other, "We KNOW how good we have it. Let's appreciate it."

Jacques-

Heh! :-)

You are spot on in your post, Discoshaman. How many different "boyband" imitations does there need to be in CCM. Next, we'll get the 50 Cent imitations.

Speaking as a former employee at LifeWay Christian Stores, I can tell you that, regrettably, 50 Cent imitations are not objects of expectation; they are present realities. The list of nameless rap-posers Grapetree Records has produces supersaturated my mind--sorry I can't remember any names.

"The Calvin Mafia"--how true, as is the talk about the best thinkers being resident in Calvinistic circles. I know that Old Johnny C., after enlightening me, went on to do the same for several others in my high school; therefore, those Reformed friends of mine and I are going to have taken over the world soon.

DS: I went to the 'other' institution for 2.5 years (Naval Postgraduate School). NPS isn't as high on the hill as DLI, but a good starting point for jogging along the bay. Our hovel housing was in Fort Ord (post-closing) and if you stood in the backyard and raised up on your tippy-toes, you could see the bay. Real close to the golf-course on Ord.

My mother-in-law still lives in Seaside, and both my daughters were born at CHOMP.

Peace.

On a recent trip in Eastern Europe, I overheard a member of the medical team talking about the creativity of God. His observation was what artistic effort and intent we can see in creation just by looking at the patterns of wild animals - his example being the leopard.

This is a great thread ... perhaps the most simple way of viewing this profound issue is to recognize that this is our Father's world! It is His beauty, His colors, His palette of personalities, and all that makes this life so multi-dimensional. Where not explicitly relegated to the trash-heap by Scripture because of sin (a rightfully appropriate distinction), we should stop defining ourselves as Christians by what we either don't do, or what we can acceptably "Christianize" (I loved your comment about Harry Potter - my friend Rich Vincent's belief [www.theocentric.com] is that Left Behind is nothing more than the Christian community's answer to Stephen King).

Oh well, got to go. Busy wrapping up my plethora of Christmas presents (all evangelical books or Bibles of course) in my WWJD wrapping paper, while wearing my ten-commandments slippers after I get back from driving my car festooned with "in case of Rapture this car will be on autopilot" bumper stickers!

A memory of Art Skool that I thought I had surpressed just floated to the top.

I had gotten religion soon after transferring into the Painting Dept., and was trying to figure out how I could fufil the great commission AND my Senior Project at the same time.

Let's just say that at one point, it was me inside a giant paper mache costume, a sack full of Chick tracts, a video camera and...a captive audience in the form of my classmates.

Hey--I was figuring it out. I didn't say I got it right.

It is nice to hear this discussed...but it's so much harder, at least in my circle, to fix--not only because art is something that evangelicals have a problem with, but also because if you want art, you have to put up with artists.

For example, my church means well and the new assistant pastor has at one time or another articulated just what you've said--but in my church unless you're doing evangelistic outreaches in groups, your "Christian walk" or "Christian service" is pretty much invisible, and the church leaders start planning a new round of sermons and committee meetings to get the congregation afire for outreach.

Art takes single minded pursuit--hours upon hours of days upon weeks upon years--a lot of it in solitude, or in the company of other artists. This doesn't fit the template of what it currently takes to be a Christian where I live--the lifestyles are nearly incompatible.

I left out part of what I was trying to say--possibly the part that caused it to make any sense. :-)

So the pastors at my church tend to only value faith that cooperates with the pastoral vision for group outreach activities--and the pastoral vision that members will attend weekly "cell group" meetings and Sunday church service--at a minimum--other church gatherings, planning meetings, activities, fellowship meals, etc, spread across the calendar.

If everyone turns out for the Car Wash for Jesus, that's good. If everyone's home practicing their violins or sweating blood over a novel, how do they know the church is "alive," is fulfilling its mission? That's what I meant by having to put up with artists if you want to have real art. And of course, that's just for starters with ways in which real artists are difficult for evangelical churches.

It's great that you've resurected this conversation... my friends and I were just dicussing art and Christianity a couple of weeks ago. Sadly, it seems that not much progress has been made in the 14 months since the original post.

"pray that non-liturgical Christians will learn to write readable prose"

I find it interesting that non-liturgical Christians are especially bad in the area of arts. It seems to me that it's not coincidental. Many of the choruses sung at "contemporary" worship services are repetitive and mindless. Liturgies (and good old hymns, for that matter), when done right, bring the truths of the gospel to mind. I think that when you take the intellect out of worship it gets real easy to dumb down other aspects of the Christian walk. Art is no exception.

I've attempted to ramble about this issue over at my laughable excuse for a blog too... but I'm so encouraged to see many Christians are thinking in the same manner as I am (whether or not I articulate it).

I think it's already losing it's ground as an art form, but Film is in a worse condition than fiction and music, and I hate that. Film is the new accessible medium - and Christians are so far behind the curve it's embarrassing.

I believe the root of the problem is that Christians have forgotten how to create art that is subtle and thought provoking. The overwhelming mindset is that if we are explicit in our message then we don't have to be exemplatory in our mediums.

Unfortunately the world has the opposite thinking now - creativity is the rule, and the message doesn't need to be obvious at all.

Our challenge is finding out how to speak the truth without compromise while simultaneously being relevant and creative.

I think that whatever hope we have of creating a new Evangelical paradigm for the arts is largely a pipe dream until many things change in the art world and society as a whole. Several reasons:

1. Christian arts flourished when there was patronage. Patronage is unheard of in the United States now. Art has been made a commodity like so many other things. Plus, the art market is so wildly in flux that one day your collection is worth millions and the next day thousands. Patrons of the arts won't stomach that kind of crazed fluctuation. Therefore, there are no longer any true patrons of artists left in this country.

2. The spiral to the bottom in what is being "said" through art is almost complete. Christian artists are stuck in that they either wilt financially trying for something more soul-stirring or they go with the flow and make Christianized versions of the dreck that passes for art today. Thomas Kinkade may be reviled here, but at least he's not trying to pass off his own feces as a "statement." I think the British Musuem recently paid $300,000 for "art" that was nothing more than a pile of the "artist"'s feces. If that is what the people want, perhaps there is no hope in raising the bar.

3. Market realities still bear. With the consolidation going on in the publishing realms, publishers are less willing to give new authors a try. They are also loathe to takes risks with anything that isn't a surefire bestseller. Again, Christian writers can sell their books or they can try for the altruistic and go broke. Now, which of us Christian authors is going to try to buck that system? Or would we rather eat?

4. Today's Christians don't operate out of a solely Christian worldview, so they cannot see the importance of art. But who can blame them? Given the current social/time/church/job pressures on most families, the art world has to take a backseat. If I'm spending all my time trying to keep my education current just so I can keep my job, what time do I have to devote to art and the art world? Not much.

BTW Robertson Davies wrote a phenomenal novel which is on this very subject (though from a somewhat different angle). It's called _A Mixture of Frailties_ and is the third book of the Salterton Trilogy, available as one volume. Can't recommend it, or any of his other works, highly enough.

DLE-

I really appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts. :-)

You seem to be missing my point to an extent. I'm not addressing first and foremost the lack of Christians in the art market. I'm addressing an attitude that doesn't value beauty or art as something valuable. I'm addressing the seeming inability to create works of lasting merit or beauty. Money is in no way the central thing in view here.

1. I'm not clear why you think the lack of patronage has a disproportionate impact on Christian artists as opposed to others.

2. "Thomas Kinkade may be reviled here, but at least he's not trying to pass off his own feces as a "statement."

Kinkade should be reviled everywhere.

"Christian artists are stuck in that they either wilt financially trying for something more soul-stirring or they go with the flow and make Christianized versions of the dreck that passes for art today."

Which is why I said we may need to form a counter-establishment of our own. It took Evangelicals hundreds of years to descend to the point where "dance teams" in cheesy gowns and hideous purple banners on the walls were the high point of our aesthetic endeavors. I don't expect us to climb out overnight. :-)

3. "They are also loathe to takes risks with anything that isn't a surefire bestseller. Again, Christian writers can sell their books or they can try for the altruistic and go broke."

It's that can-do spirit that launched America. ;-) Seriously though, secular authors buck that system all the time, and write brilliant, sensitive prose that still sells. I've read a ton of new authors in the past few years who are innovative, ask genuine questions in their writing, but do it without being didactic. All sell well. None are Evangelical.

4. "If I'm spending all my time trying to keep my education current just so I can keep my job, what time do I have to devote to art and the art world? Not much."

This isn't just about art, but about culture. And you're right, not every Christian needs to be "up" on the art world. Not every Christian needs to interact with the world in this sphere. But SOME do. And part of our general education as Evangelicals should be an appreciation for beauty and culture. Such an environment would allow for a thriving subset of Evangelicals who produce art and literature of lasting value, and provide a market to purchase these works.

I think you should consider switching from the term non-liturgical and instead consider using poor-liturgical, or bad-liturgical, or liturgically inept or un-liturgical, like un-civilized, for I really don't think anybody can be non-liturgical any more than they can be non-civilized altogether. Everybody has a liturgy they follow, it's just some do it better than others, because like cultural activites, it will be bad if you neglect it or do it causally, and have a chance to be good if you pay attention to it and cultivate it. And if you pay attention to it over time, in the democracy of the dead, why then . . .

Discoshaman:

Sorry for not posting lately. My job has me out this week working in our company's exhibit booth at the National Religious Broadcaster's convention. In Anaheim, CA. Across the street from Disneyland. I am not making this up.

Anyway, this tradeshow is a look at what's coming down the pipeline in Christian media, so by wandering around the exhibit hall, I am getting a look at what will be on Christian TV, radio, webcasts, whatever in the next year or so.

Discoshaman, I have seen the future. And it is crap. Pure crap. Unadulterated, unmitigated, unembarassed, boldly and brazenly crap. Crap. Crap. Crap. More crap.

All except the "Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" movie. It looks well-done. A gem in a septic tank.

If I get the chance in the next couple of days maybe I'll send you an email with some choice previews of coming crap for you to tease your readers with.

Oh, BTW, did I mention that it's all crap?

I wish Greg would speak plainly about how he feels--all this doublespeak and metaphor ("Gems in Toilets"?!?) has me searching for the real meaning here. . . .

I forgot the

;)

in my last post.

I say YES to all 7 of your proposals.

As a Catholic priest married to the Orthodox wife may I have a permission to borrow suggestions and ask brethren in Catholic & Orthodox Church to comply?

It’s so refreshing to see Christians who are:
A) Reading
B) Know what they belive
C) dare I say, taking responsibility and
D)THINKING for themselves,
E)not afraid of God given freedoms and abilities

instead of begging to be hoarded as cattle, just so there’s no responsibility to maybe be wrong…
'let someone else do the thinking and tell me what is right, so I am right….'

Thank you for this site it is a sign that maybe there’s hope for mankind…
Thanks!

I must say, I would rather people exhibit their own feces and call it art than I would that Thomas Kincaid calls his paintings art. It would be less repulsive.

Kathryn,

That is priceless. ROFL.

I'm going to be Captain Bringdown here, but I don't find anything funny about wanting to "stone" Kinkade. Many people find his paintings beautiful. I don't personally own any, but I can respect his talent. I realize it was said in jest, but I'm just tired of reading this kind of holier than thou, I'm-more-sophisticated-than-you on the God blogs.

I also would like to point out that all popular music these days is derivative. It's not like 50 cent is something "new". It's at the outskirts (indie labels, etc) of both secular and Christian music that innovation happens. Have you listened to mainstream radio lately?

OK, I'm done ranting. I need to learn to stay out of these arguments.

Bill-

"OK, I'm done ranting. I need to learn to stay out of these arguments."

There's an alternative -- you could learn to be in these arguments without turning into an unsmiling, carping drudge. :-) But perhaps you should just avoid them. Especially if you can't critique points without attacking the motives of people you don't even know.

"Many people find his paintings beautiful. I don't personally own any, but I can respect his talent."

Many people put pink plastic flamingos and garden gnomes in their yards where I lived in Florida. That doesn't make it art. Kinkade is to art what Robin Williams is to acting is what pornography is to motion pictures.

Disco,

My comment was not meant as an attack on you or anyone else. I apologize if it was taken as such.

I do have problems with this kind of talk (kinkade is to art as pornography is to movies?) but I don't think I'm going to move the conversation any further. I just wanted you to know that I wasn't trying to judge you. I've always respected you.

b

Bill-

"I realize it was said in jest, but I'm just tired of reading this kind of holier than thou, I'm-more-sophisticated-than-you on the God blogs."

It was just that you referred specifically to something I said and then called it "holier than thou" etc. I hope you can understand why I took the comment as directed at me.

That said, I've always respected you as well. And I hope you'll accept an apology. My response was overly sharp.

Well put, Disco - you're right. I shouldn't have said that. I was in a moment of high-dudgeon, but I can understand that I wasn't being very kind (which is what I'm supposedly standing for - d'oh).

I've been ranting in a similar vein on one of Jared's posts over at Thinklings. I think I've gotten it out of my system, and hopefully haven't left behind too many hurt feelings. Drat . . .

Thanks for the kind response. Let me know if there's anything else I've said that was offensive - not my intention!

Bill-

"Well put, Disco - you're right. I shouldn't have said that. I was in a moment of high-dudgeon, but I can understand that I wasn't being very kind (which is what I'm supposedly standing for - d'oh)."

Isn't this one of the nice things about the Kingdom? We both failed here, but the Spirit of God wouldn't allow us to sit quietly with it. :-) I like the whole communion of the Saints thing.

I understand that you don't like the expression "Kinkade is to art what Robin Williams is to acting is what pornography is to motion pictures", but I think it's just.

Kinkade's kitsch is lowest common denominator pap that relies on a gimmick to make it saleable. It wins a response from its viewers without earning it. All of these are the same with pornography. And with much of Robin William's acting.

For the record, I agree with you that Kinkade has talent. If you look at some of his early, more impressionistic stuff, it's clear that he could be quite good if he chose. But he's a sort of Christian Andy Warhol, turning out mass-marketable pap. That's his choice. And it's a sad, sad thing that he's the face of Christian art.

I don't want to debate this, necessarily, but I feel compelled to say this, with all good nature but also unashamedly. Art is supposed to be subjective, correct? I like Thomas Kinkade's work. I don't own any (it's pricey), but when I see one of his galleries I am slack-jawed at the beauty of his paintings. They convey peace and joy to me.

He is one of those artists I thought we wanted - a devout Christian with cross-over appeal (if you go to his website you'll see he's won many awards in the "secular" world). Also, I get the sense that he's a truly decent man.

In reading this discussion, I've realized that I'm not standing on the same platform as you and some others. I think I'm representative of the problem you decry. For that I apologize, but I'm not sure what you want me to do about it - suggest for me some alternate art that I could patronize, perhaps (serious question)?

Hi Bill!

I really don't want to debate it either, because the whole Kinkade thing was really more of a fun throw-away line than a main point. Much of the convo has focused on Evangelicals being undercapitalized to make good movies, and about Kinkade. Both are peripheral.

As a last few thoughts on Kinkade though. First, I'll refer you to something The Dane said over on Jollyblogger:

"As far as the short answer to why Rembrandt is better than Kinkade? I maintain that perhaps one or two of Kinkade's earlier pieces could be exhibited as genuine pieces of pretty good art (still not fantastic). As soon as becoming marketable, Kinkade stopped being an artist and became a "paint-by-numbers" corporation of assembly-line talents who mass produced works at an inhuman speed. According to the definition of art I give on the above page, this is not art, but simply "good craft." Really, the company does well what it sets out to do, but what it sets out to do is not create art."

I'm going to do a last post on all this tonight, and it'll hopefully be something you can get into more than stoning Kinkade. :-)

"Art is supposed to be subjective, correct?"

Do you think beauty is purely subjective? If so, do you disagree with those who say that beauty, like truth, is a part of God's natural revelation in Creation?

"They convey peace and joy to me."

That's okay. I didn't write the post to judge anyone. It's OKAY to like bad art. There are kitschy things that I take enjoyment from too. Not every book I read is a classic, and not every painting I enjoy has to be one either.

The problem isn't so much that we have a Kinkade, as that we practically ONLY have a Kinkade. We can say he does art, but not without an adjective. Perhaps "motel art." What's missing is artists shooting higher than that.

"I think I'm representative of the problem you decry."

No! The problem I decry is theological, not aesthetic. And I'm not calling for every Evangelical to suddenly become a Friend of the *Fill in Name of Dead Benefactor* Museum. Anyway, I'll write more on the main page.

Good talking with you. Seriously.